Considering a restart

[SteveM]

I started a HAED a few months back and decided to stitch full cross 2 over 1 on 25 count Zweigart Lugana as my previous project was 18 count aida which I enjoyed, but I wanted a smaller stitch size. I did a quick test stitch before starting and all looked well.

The problems I'm having are that so much thread gets stuffed down each hole that the fabric thread tends to shift down and close up the next row of holes, requiring me to carefully fit the needle between the fabric threads when I come up at the bottom of stitches rather than simply popping the needle into a waiting hole. The other issue this causes is that my floss is being abraded by the tight fit and sometimes just as I pull a stitch tight one strand of floss separates in the middle and I have to rip back enough stitches to get solid thread to tie off with. Sometimes I can catch this before it happens, but I still waste a lot of thread cutting out the abraded section and the abraded tails that defy being threaded into a needle till trimmed. One last problem encountered by this tight fit is that cross country stitching isn't much of an option as it can be extremely difficult and needle bending to put in a stitch that is already surrounded by several other stitches.

So while I have a page nearly done and could continue as-is for the next decade I'm starting to think that the aforementioned issues are reducing my enjoyment and making it more of a chore than a relaxing hobby. I see three options:

1. Stay at 25 count. Just suck it up and soldier on, experimenting with techniques that may make my stitching go more smoothly. Or restart with a different brand of 25 count Lugana or try Jobelan, Monaco, or linen to see if they allow more room for the floss.
2. Switch to 22 or 20 count. For 22 count I'd only have 2" of spare fabric on
   the sides or need to use a different frame. Dropping down to 20 count aida would
   give but 1" on the sides of my current frame. Either fabric would require I
   buy more of some colors of floss since I purchased based on 25 count fabric.
3. Switch to 1 over 1. I did a test of 1 over 1 on my 25 count Lugana and the coverage was good,
   but I could see switching to 28 count Lugana as many have done to get better coverage. Unfortunately
   this means no more loop starts, but I'd have floss to spare.

I know I could probably do a 2 over 1 tent stitch, but I find the full cross to be more satisfying for some reason. Hopefully you all can lend me your experiences and wisdom.

[Allyn]

I was wondering when the 2-over-1 full crosses would get to you. That's a lot of thread to jam into those holes. I wouldn't carry on with that piece if you're going to try other methods because I'd be afraid it would show in the finished piece.

As far as what other fabric to try, that's up to you. I don't know what your preferences are. For 25-count and higher, I'd tent or do 1-over-1 if you want to do full crosses. Since you're not doing blends, you have the option of doing 1-over-1. It's been my experience that once you get down to about 22-count or 20-count, 2-over-1 works, but on higher counts, it's just too much thread.

For me, losing loop starts is not a problem. Using away/waste knots becomes second nature. About two dozen symbols in my current project of 200+ symbols are solid colors. I pulled a solid color last night to put a few stitches in thinking I'd loop-start it. . . .and made a waste knot in the end before my brain processed it.

[rcperryls]

I agree with Allyn and strongly encourage you to start over. I waited on my first HAED and stitched 6+ pages (most of it black) before it became totally impossible. I was using a tweezers to try and get the needle through the fabric. And the more confetti you get to the worse it is. I know there are some who can manage that, but not me. I switched to 1 over 1 on 25 ct and have several projects going with that. I get good coverage and manage without loop starts. I use a waste knot or a small knot on the back or anchoring the thread through other threads for single stitches. I also have several projects that are tent stitch on 28 ct which is my preferred method as I get good coverage and it is faster.
1 over 1 on 28 ct would also look good, I think. If you prefer using 2 strands I would go with either 22 or 20 ct fabrics. But I wouldn't stay with anything that becomes a chore instead of being fun.

Carole

[Stitchinkitty]

If it's not enjoyable don't continue.I would opt for 20 or 22 ct.

[Allyn]

... I use a waste knot or a small knot on the back or anchoring the thread through other threads .....

Oh Noes! Say it isn't so!

[rcperryls]

... I use a waste knot or a small knot on the back or anchoring the thread through other threads .....

Oh Noes! Say it isn't so!

Knot is almost too big to describe it. Easy to snip after the stitch is secure. That is actually something I just recently tried and was surprised that it doesn't leave a bump when covered by the surrounding stitches. I'll try to remember to take a picture of the back of the piece I'm stitching.

Carole

[SteveM]

Ok then, no more stitching till I get this sorted out. The good news is that I didn't trim the length of my 25 ct Lugana so if I turn it end for end I can use the same piece of fabric if I so choose. I've just placed an order for some sample pieces of 28 ct Lugana, 22 ct Hardanger, 20 ct Lugana, and 20 ct Aida. Then I'll do the more extensive test stitching that I should have done before.

My aversion to tent stitching is that my last project was a Dimensions gold kit that was probably 80% half stitching. Unbeknownst to me I completed all of the cross stitches that first year then spent 4 years not getting to make a single X on my cross stitch except for the odd stitch that I had missed. If I had two WIPs and one was full cross that would probably scratch that itch for me and I'd be ok tent stitching the other. I did do a test stitch of tent stitching on my 25 ct Lugana (solid and blended) and found the coverage similar to 1 over 1 full cross and from arm's length the full cross and tent stitches started to become indiscernible.

I remembered that Carolyn Mazzeo is working a HAED mini with tent stitching so I dug up the videos and found where she said it is on 28 count Lugana. She said the stitching was a little thick and the holes a bit hard to see so in the future she plans to tent stitch her HAED patterns on 25 count Lugana.

Thank you all for your advice, I think it is all very sound and the only variable is which fabric and stitch type is going to appeal to me.

[richardandtracy]

I agree with the rest - re-start.

Must admit I prefer a half cross. It covers the fabric more quickly and tension differences seem to show up less sharply than with crosses. I think 25ct is about as large as 2 over 1 tent stitching is suitable for. Even then when you photograph it, the fabric colour can show through as dots. Having done my 'I'm Watching You' on 25ct as a tent stitch, I can imagine how difficult it is as full crosses - not really worth the extra bother.

Regards,

Richard.

[tiathyme]

I started down the same path with my first HAED. Stitching full cross 2 over 1 on 22 count. It was a nightmare! Especially as I started in an area of confetti.

I now stitch 2 over 1 tent stitch on 25ct magic guide lugana and it's a dream. I can loop start and tent stitch goes so quickly. I stitch in columns too and there doesn't seem to be that issue with getting lines that some full cross HAED stitchers get.

I think doing lots of test stitching first is the way to go. It took me half a dozen starts to find a method that worked for me. Good luck!

[SteveM]

Well, I've assembled a rather challenging 2000 piece puzzle and spent some time on an old needlepoint kit. I can't wait to try out the fabric so I can get restarted. Ironically needlepoint is a tent stitch, but the large areas of color lend themselves well to the basket weave stitch which I seem to enjoy for some reason, perhaps because I like the pattern on the back.

I've been spending some of my spare time trying to see what people are using for HAED (solids) and SQ (blended). With HAED I'm seeing a lot of 1 over 1 on 25 and 28 count and 2 over 1 on 18. SQ stitchers avoid 1 over 1 for blending reasons, but otherwise people seemed to use similar fabrics and stitches. Although I could have sworn I saw it used fairly frequently several months ago, I've yet to find anyone stitching full cross 2 over 1 on 25 count in my more recent search through the forums.

[rcperryls]

Have you looked at the HAED Bulletin Board? That is where you can find the most WIPs as well as finished pieces. There are also quite a few Facebook groups. Amazing how many different options there are.

Carole

[SteveM]

Yes, the HAED BB is one of my sources though I haven't got around to the gallery yet. I closed my facebook account in 2006 when they opened it up for anyone 13 and over to join and am a bit reluctant to go back. Maybe I could snoop around on my wife's account.

Sometimes I have to read between the lines. If someone says they stitch on 32 count linen but don't say what king of stitch I assume 2 over 2. In some photos people will add the fabric and stitch info which is very helpful.

At this point I'm leaning towards flipping the fabric end for end and stitching 1 over 1, but we'll see what the test stitching reveals this evening. Tracking shows that my fabric will arrive today.

[SteveM]

This has been a very educational and enlightening evening for me so please excuse any rambling and don't feel like you have to read it all. To do my test stitching a just did a simple box of 30 stitches using two colors but did it in a pattern such that I would have to put in some stitches in an area surrounded on all sides by existing stitches. A task that is very difficult when doing 2 over 1 full cross on 25 count.

First up was some 20 count Wichlet Aida and 22 count Charles Craft Hardanger. That Wichlet aida is the worst I have ever seen. It is literally paper thin, reeks of starch, is rough in the hand, and the needle tends to split the fabric threads instead of slipping into the holes. The Charles Craft Hardanger was much better quality and as a result much easier to stitch on. Both were done full cross 2 over 1 and the end result looked quite good.

Next I tried some 20 count Zweigart Lugana also full cross 2 over 1. Interesting thing about Lugana, since you have but a single strand between holes as you go from 28 count to 25 count to 20 count the fabric gets thicker and thicker as the threads get thicker to space out the holes. The holes are much easier to see, but the stitches didn't lie as flat as on the aida. It sure does feel much better in the hand though.

I re-did the test stitches on my 25 count Lugana using 1 over 1 full cross and 2 over 1 tent. Then I did some 28 count Lugana with the same stitches. It surprised me how at 28 count those stitches started getting hard to see and at times a little fussy to come up through a hole with threads already in it. The 25 count was actually very pleasant to stitch with both types of stitches. The 28 count had better coverage as you would expect, but I think it would get a bit hard on my eyes.

The 20 and 22 count allowed me to make 2 over 1 full crosses fairly easily and I could use a #26 needle which feels nice in the hand and is easier to thread. The 25 and 28 count were a bit harder on the eyes and I found I needed to drop down to a #28 needle, but they use less fabric and thread. For some reason I just couldn't warm up to the tent stitch appearance even though it was clearly faster to stitch.

Since I can restart using the same fabric by simply turning it end for end, that is what I am going to do and use 1 over 1 full crosses (I also won't need to buy more floss). I wouldn't hesitate to use 20 or 22 count aida/hardanger in the future, especially with blended threads, but would have to give serious consideration before using 28 count.

Thank you all for your kind help and suggestions.

[richardandtracy]

Glad you've found a way around the problem.

I've just started two projects on 28ct , 2 over 1 tent, each with about 100k stitches, and can confirm it's a bit hard to see. Particularly when using very light colours on white fabric!

Regards,

Richard.

[rcperryls]

I'm also glad to hear that you have found a stitching mode (is that the right word?) that you are comfortable with. And I do understand what you say about it being more difficult on the larger counts to see the holes. I would not be able to stitch on 25 ct or higher fabric without my Mag Lite.

Carole

[SteveM]

It has been about a week since my restart and I've been waiting till I hit the confetti area before posting any update.

Since my starting area is sky with 2-3 colors in most 10x10 blocks I quickly stitched a column 20 wide down the page. Previously this area was about 100 stitches per hour and now it is more like 150 per hour. Not only is the stitching faster but more enjoyable as a result of changing to 1 over 1 and I now feel like each stitching session is making real progress.

As I hit the tree tops the confetti kicked in so instead of completing a 20x10 block at a time I went cross-country in the tree top and worked one color at a time. It is difficult to calculate my speed, but it was also much faster and more enjoyable than before when I'd have to change colors every 1-3 stitches. There are no problems coming back into a filled area to complete an isolated stitch. I'm not certain if I will continue to cross-country in confetti areas or go back to parking, but at least I have option.

I've been starting and stopping using waste knots which has meant no flipping of my work which brings me no end of joy. That means a mess of thread running behind the fabric to my knots so we shall see if that is an issue for later stitches or not.

[richardandtracy]

Glad it's better to stitch as you are doing it.
When the fabric is really tight, it gets horrible to stitch and makes you reluctant to do it. That's where the fun goes out the window and it becomes a chore - and probably never gets completed. Good thing you've solved the problem for the way you like to work.

Regards,

Richard.

[rcperryls]

I am so glad to hear that you are enjoying your stitching now! Looking forward to seeing lots of updates as you make progress on this one.

Carole

[SteveM]

Richard - You've got it exactly. I wanted tiny little stitches with full coverage, but what is the point if the process is torture?

Carole - I had previously read about your restart after nearly 7 pages on a HAED and that was on my thoughts frequently while I stitched. Even after just a quarter page I was remembering your story and trying to convince myself that I was too far along to restart and that it wasn't that bad. It helped me make up my mind that I needed to stop and reevaluate.

That first page took me about 6 months to do (I have a 2 year old after all) so mark your calendars for about May for a WIP update.

[Allyn]

I can empathize. I was on page 12 of my Color of the Wolf before I decided I had enough and had to restart. Sometimes you have to do it and I am so glad that you're enjoying your project again.