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[Rose]

Forum Members

I don’t like to have to do this but I have to take the good with the bad sooooooo……..

In the last few months we have had some issues related to the Exchanges that have gone on. Some of the issues are things that we just can not control….i.e. lost in the mail. This of course we can not do anything about. But other issues have also come up.

A suggestion was made that the forum should put together rules that must be followed so that people are not disappointed. I am not sure this can be done for one reason. The forum DOES NOT run the exchanges we just give a location for the information to be posted. Each person who takes on the responsibility of an Exchange is then responsible for setting down the rules. Yes we “steal” ideas from previous exchanges, but it is really up to the Organizer to write out the rules and then make sure that all the participants follow those rules. Once that is done then it is really up to the individual to follow through and up hold there commitment.

It is important to realize when we join these exchanges that we are all taking a chance that something might happen and we may not receive what we expected. There are many levels of skills and some of us are better then others are at finishing or stitching or picking the right fabric or any other number of things that could go wrong. So we all take a chance when we enter. But I am convinced that every member that does enter an exchange does the very best they can depending on their own abilities.

So I am putting this in a Poll and I really want/need to know what you think.

Do you want the forum to put together a group of rules that EVERYONE must follow for future exchanges? Or would you like to let things go as we are. Pay your dime and take your chance?

But just be aware that even if we do set up a bunch of rules it is still NOT the responsibility of the forum to enforce those rules it still falls to the Organizer to enforce the rules. I am not trying to weasel out of anything it is just we can not be responsible for what others do or do not complete.

[stitchingmae]

Automatically afraid someone was dissapointed in an object I sent lol how sad is that, that I immediately blame myself. Lol please if it is something I made or make in the future let me know and I can redo or send replacement stash in amount spent on item sent to me.

[Wandatoo]

Rose, can you give examples of the kind of rules you mean?

[koko]

I don't see a problem with putting forth some general guidelines that should be followed for all exchanges, but of course each exchange may have specific rules applying to what is being exchanged (ie ATC guidleines). Are you talking about rules regarding the actual exchange or about the stitched item?

[meerkat]

Thank you for airing this topic Rose.
I have joined only one exchange here so far and am now on the list for the grab bag exchange(2) Personally,I think that we can only follow the guidelines given by each organiser, there are always basic guidelines that apply to 99% of exchanges and after that rely on each other to keep the exchange going, and I love receiving stitched items from other members(I did some exchanges elsewhere too) but there is always a risk,however small, that something will go awry,for what ever reason. I'm still happy to take the risk and if I become unhappy I'll stop joining exchanges.

Having read further on, I just want to say,by unhappy, I cetainly don't mean that in the sense of any stitched exchange gifts I may receive

[Rose]

I am not sure of the rules that would need to or want to be set forth. This was a suggestion that was made to me and it was suggested that the forum be asked if they thought it was a good idea.

I really don't know what rules would be mandated. If the forum said yes we want rules then I was going to ask what rules you all wanted.

Some of the suggestions that were made came from an exchange blog. They only allow 100 members and they restrict materials used only to evenweaves and size and a few other requirements. What we would compile would have to be rules that try to encourage all ranges of work. This is one of the reasons I am unsure about what is needed and what could be enforced, we are so diverse it would really be hard to come up with rules everyone is happy with.

Sorry I don't have any more information.

[Serinde]

It seems to me that an Exchange is a chance for different individuals on the forum to share their craft by sending finished articles to another stitcher here on the forum. Cross Stitch Forum cannot in any way be responsible for the vagaries of the workings of international postal systems. Nor can it have any influence over the unfortunate intrusion of our real lives into our stitching lives: people get sick, made redundant and so on. And there is no way to stop people being disappointed -- we all rely on good manners to keep it to ourselves. (Not that I've ever been disappointed with anything I've been lucky enough to receive.)

On the whole, I agree with Rose that the Forum is the medium for the exchange, not the organiser. However, if there are rumblings, then perhaps the best way for exchanges to continue is for there to be a small, basic set of Forum rules -- manners, really -- about what is expected when you join an exchange. I personally think restricting the use of materials and so forth is not what we are about on this forum. I was thinking more on the order of making sure your enthusiasm for an exchange doesn't override your time commitments -- so perhaps having a "cooling off period" ( a week, say) when it would be possible to drop out without inconveniencing anyone. It might be necessary to cap the numbers for any particular exchange (except Stashmas, of course), although I'd hate to see it.

However, each exchange has to set up its own criteria within which its operating (the topic, materials and so forth) and how the exchange is to be accomplished (how it's decided to whom a piece is sent, for instance). Surely we are all adult enough to be responsible on an exchange, even (especially?) when this means pulling out if something unforeseen arises?

I'm presuming, Rose, that you have been on the receiving end of dissatisfied customers. I'm sorry about that.

[kell]

I think only the very basic rules could be set out as overview rules, such as:

1. All members who wish to take part in the exchange must have entered their name and said that their piece is completed by the final cut-off date, or it will be assumed that they have pulled out.

2. All members who have confirmed their piece is finished by the cut-off date must confirm that they are still taking part before the swap partner details are sent out (so that we know all participants are still around).

3. The exchange host must put all the relevant details in the first post so that all information can be found quickly and easily by participants, rather than having to scroll right through the thread to double check something.

etc, etc, etc

Exchange-specific rules, such as materials, themes and dimensions would have to be set by the host as they would change depending on what the exchange was about. It would also have to be up to the host to decide whether or not paeople who had disappointed at the last minute in previous exchanges would be able to take part in their exchange.

[Rose]

I don't want this to get personal that is why I had a long think as to how to put this all into words. It took me about 2 days of tweeking to be happy with how I worded the original message.

We were contacted because a receiver was unhappy with the exchange. My first response was we are very sorry for the disappointment but we all take our chances when we enter an exchange. It was then suggested that we ask the members if set rules should not be implimented. So then I put this up for all to put in there ideas. Over the course of time we have actually only had 3 complaints that were something other then mail related. I personally think that is a pretty good attrition rate.

So what are some of the rules that we think should be a standard for ALL Exchanges to come???? I can put then together and make them an annoucement they will then stay at the top of the Exchange Section and who ever want to can copy and paste them into there new echanges.

[koko]

I agree with Serinde and Kell - there could be basic common courtesy rules in place to make sure that people who commit to the exchange follow through, and if they are unable, let the proper people know.

But I don't know about limiting materials or designs unless a specific exchange was set up that way. One of the things I love about the exchanges is that I always get a unique item stamped with someone else's personal flair. My exchange partner may use different fabric than I normally use, or stitch in a different style, and I always love to see someone else's perspective or interpretation of the theme.

[meerkat]

I think guide lines regarding who to contact,such as the exchange organiser, if someone finds they cannot carry on with an exchange is a good idea too. And a firmly agreed date for completion and posting
I agree with koko that the fun of an exchange is the individuality of each contribution save perhaps stating the size and/or theme of a specific exchange piece if needs be.

[freelady]

As one who does not participate in exchanges but 'watches from the sidelines' I would like to point out what I have observed over the past couple of years.

Most people seem happy with what they receive from other members (I haven't seen comments to the contrary on the forum.) It seems that exchangers know ahead of time that there are differing levels of skill and funds for making things and this is part of the fun. And I am aware that there is always going to be a level of grousing about all sorts of things that is not on the forum itself but in the background. No one can do much about that being that we are all humans.

The biggest problem I have seen is when someone 'drops off the face of the earth' for lack of a better term, thereby causing someone else not to receive although they have sent. And there is usually no word from the missing sender.

Kell's suggestion about a cooling off period sounds good. It also seems like a good idea (again Kell's) to make a list of those interested but not to do the pairing up nor sending out until everyone confirms they are ready to post their offering. Then the names can be paired up and if someone who registered initially doesn't get in touch, they are not included in the 'pairing up' list. That could make it easier anyone who has to drop out and no one should get left disappointed (ignoring issues with mail which no one can foresee).

I hope you come to a consensus that suits everyone. Rose, I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.

[karen4bells]

I think things are run about as well as they can--and though I've not done any of the exchanges, I do think that they seem to go pretty well. One of the reasons I am so reluctant to not join in on the exchanges is that my hubby is now retired and smokes in the house, and it's nearly impossible for me to stitch without getting the smell in my work. That being said, I know that there are a good majority of the forum members who don't like to smell that, so I just sit and watch. On the other hand, I do swap charts with others as those I can pretty much keep stored away.

[minij]

Well firstly Rose I have to say that I am very sorry that you have been put in this position.

I havn't taken part in many exchanges except Stashmas as I am often concerned about not being able to meet the deadline etc and would not want to let anyone down but I have checked in on many and as I see it

1) Most organisers do set out basic rules eg deadline for finishing posting etc and any that are relevant to that exchange, often asking for other members views.
2) People generally seem really pleased with what they receive as the fun of exchanges is, seeing different styles of stitching, the surprise etc.
3) We are all adults and people should know that there will be various, abilities, styles etc and should be prepared for this and not take part if they don't accept this, after all we should get pleasure out of knowing that anoter member has taken time and put a great deal of thought into our gift, so no-one should be ungrateful
4) Postage problems will from time to time cause a problem but we have no control over, normally someone either the original sender or another member will get something out to the person who hasn't receive so they are not disappointed.

If you want to put together a few basic rules I don't see a problem with that but as I said I think they generally exist at the beginning of each exchange. I would hate for it to get too specific e.g count etc as that spoils the creativiity and fun

[Rose]

What I am reading is that most of us would like to have some basic guidelines. That is great this will give everyone a place to start when you are organizing a new exchange. So Now we need to come to some agreement as to what the base rules should be from what I can come-up with in my own head the rules will be more for the organizer to set out rules and then they will need to enforce these rules and tweak them at there own discretion.

Here is what I am thinking.

All new exchanges should include the following.

1) Firm Deadline Date for members to sign-up by.

2) Date that names for exchange will be posted. This will happen once the members confirm that they are willing to uphold their responsibility.

3) Date items will be sent to your recipient. This needs to be posted as a firm date for mailing. If members can not meet this date then they need to tell the organizer and either be eliminated or special exception made. All members who have confirmed their piece is finished by the cut-off date must confirm that they are still taking part before the swap partner details are sent out (so that we know all participants are still around).

4) Theme for the exchange or post that this will be an open choice. Any exclusions should be written out full. IE. If you want this to be a sports theme but don't want just a ball as the main theme then this means to be expressed.

5) Thread and fabric requirements must be fully explained. IE. If you only want evenweaves used and no metallics then this must be explicitly explained. As should any other requirements such as size or how the finish should be done. These can be left out if no reqirements are going to be made.

6) All members who wish to take part in the exchange must have entered their name and said that their piece is completed by the final cut-off date, or it will be assumed that they have pulled out. Organizer should also state if picture of completed product is a requirement. I think that as a safety measure requiring a picture means you have proof the product has been completed.

7) I think that in some cases a time on the forum limit might be a good idea. This would be set by the Exchange Administrator. Say an active member for at least (?) months. This would mean that we have become familiar with the member and know how often they come to the forum. This can be checked easy enough by looking at the profile of the member.

8.) The organizer will have the authority to deny any member acceptance into the exchange for any reason. Kinda like the "we have the right to refuse service for any reason" rule that applies in resturants. If you have signed up for a previous exchange and did not complete your obligation without a very good reason (sickness, job, family emergency, money issues) then you will be left out of future exchanges.

9) As a member signing up for an exchange you are required to do everything you can to follow all rules set forth by the organizer of the exchange. If for any reason you can not complete your obligation you must asap contact the organizer so that they can make arrangements to redo the list of sender and recipient. You must make every effort to send out a high quality product.

10) This or a similarly worded disclaimer added. The forum/exchange organizer are not responsible for the quality of the product that any member will recieve. We hope/expect that all members will make every effort to send out a quality product that they would be proud to recieve. ALL members who enter this exchange must understand that there are different levels of abilities and knowledge and skill. So if you receive a finished product that is not of the same level as your own please be aware that others are trying their best. Please appreciate the effort that was made.

This is what I have for a basis. What do you think? Should the wording be changed in any of the explainations? Should anything be added to make the explaination more clear?

[Like_Fine_VVine]

I hate that you are having to do this, but I do think you came up with good guidelines that do leave the door open for creativity during the exchange.

I think the best idea (was it Kell) was the process of signing up for the exchange and confirming completed work to ensure people who signed up 2 months ago still intend to participate.

I also agree with what others have said, this is a forum for adults. So regarding skill, we all know by looking at each others' work that our skill levels vary....even "beginner" level charts take time, attention, and dedication to detail. Receiving something handmade should be appreciated for the heartfelt intent that went into creating it.

[Nachstenliebe]

I think your terms are fair, Rose.
Faith

[minij]

Rose I really appreciate all the time you are putting into this and I really feel for you as i think you are in a very difficult situation. My only thoughts are that if we have too many rules it will take the FUN out of the exchanges and surely as I see it thats what it is all about.
I think it is a lot of work for you just for the odd person who is not happy, they don't have to join in if they don't like it, I think most members are happy with the exchanges. Sorry I am not being awkward just don't like it when people are critical about things that others do with the best intentions. As I said before I think we always make sure that everyone gets something although I do appreciate that this can put extra onto the organiser and perhaps other members.

[pixxie]

sounds good, I'm assuming that the reciever was unhappy with the time it took and what they recieved, i know that i am late sending on both the bookmark exchange and the halloween biscornu but i have kept my recipient up to date with the situation and they have seemed ok about it, so if a member has a problem as long as they let everyone know then that should be ok, shouldn't it?

[maggs]

Rose just seen this thread. I am very sorry that you have been put in this situation. I personally think that Serinde and Kell have the correct approach being more about courtesy etc.

I have taken part in 3 exchanges and find them fun and I do use it to try different ideas out and I would hope that all reciepients have appreciated what they have received.

Rose you will never make everyone happy and as you have said the forum as not received that many complaints and you americans have a saying "if it aint broke don't fix it".