Piracy in Cross Stitch

[Amélie Abels]

Hi All. This may be a strange topic, but being on a forum again and around people who know their cross stitching, I'm interested in finding out more about copyright and particularly piracy when it comes to cross stitching.

Someone in one of the groups I'm part of said that one of their favourite designers was closing up shop because people were sharing her designs online. It made me a little curious and perhaps inspired to do a blog post on the topic in someday, to see if this was a growing problem, but everything I can find on the topic seems to lie between the year 2000 and 2010.

I found this really great link to a Los Angeles Time article, and whilst it's got some good insight it's pretty if Napster was still the thing everyone was worried about I also saw that really good essay posted by the user Raven a few years back.
As I said though, I'd just like to get an idea of where the problem is in 2014; how are the charts being shared around? is the problem worse than it was? That kind of stuff. Any links or resources would be greatly appreciated.

[Serinde]

If you look around the forum, you'll find links like this to various discussions we've had over the years regarding copyright. In a nutshell, the CSF takes a dim view of it.

If you are looking for modern links, you'll find a whole bunch in the discussion on this thread at p3.

[Fizzbw]

Joan Elliot regularly has to chase people on Facebook. Several cross stitch groups I subscribe to on Facebook often have issues with people selling fake charts.

I've run across them on eBay as well, though they do get taken off if you complain, but that doesn't mean they suffer any real consequences.

I get the feeling Pinterest is the worst now, people pin whole charts rather than the pictures.

It's infuriating as, as always, it's the genuine cross stitcher who gets stuffed when good designers get disillusioned and stop publishing. (And the designers of course)

We come down on it very hard in here, and rightly so.

Niki xxx

[Amanda G]

Several of my published charts have been pirated on a Chinese site where they are quite open about "not caring about copyright laws".
They copy the charts straight out of the magazines and offer them as downloads. So they are making money out of my work, which makes me
Another website had an "interview" with me.....I'd never met the person I was supposed to be having tea and a chat with but it was written as if I knew them. Not technically that bad in the piracy stakes but still naughty to claim to have "interviewed" me when it was copied straight out of a magazine (the magazine editor did interview me but minus the !)

[richardandtracy]

From a slightly different perspective, when I make charts from other people's images I always make sure I get the image copyright owner's permission.

I have not made a chart from a Michael Whelan image I would dearly love to stitch ( http://www.michaelwhelan.com/shop/repro ... age-verge/ ) because I couldn't get a reply to my request. I also managed to get suckered having asked for permission on a Luis Royo Facebook site for my current project and got a garbled reply which I interpreted as consent, only later to find out it was a fake.. That ended happily as I did manage to get proper permission in the end having checked, double checked & triple checked the source.

The other photographers and artists I have asked have been intrigued and flattered in equal measure, and have been very willing to give permission provided I supply them with progress reports!

Regards,

Richard.

[Fizzbw]

That's a difficult one Richard, I feel the same way, that you should get permission before using a photo. However I have never had a reply from the various places I've asked, Racing Post have never answered particularly which is terribly frustrating as they have an image I'm dying to get and it looks as if the only way I can get it is to buy the print....

So as I'm only using these photos for my own conversion and my own walls, I've just done it. I reckon I've done due diligence asking. Also some photos on line are used on so many sites that I can't figure out to whom the copyright applies!

Artwork is different to me though and I wouldn't convert art work without permission rather than one of a hundred thousand photographs.....

Niki xxx

[Serinde]

That's a difficult one Richard, I feel the same way, that you should get permission before using a photo. However I have never had a reply from the various places I've asked, Racing Post have never answered particularly which is terribly frustrating as they have an image I'm dying to get and it looks as if the only way I can get it is to buy the print....

So as I'm only using these photos for my own conversion and my own walls, I've just done it. I reckon I've done due diligence asking. Also some photos on line are used on so many sites that I can't figure out to whom the copyright applies!

Artwork is different to me though and I wouldn't convert art work without permission rather than one of a hundred thousand photographs.....

Niki xxx

If you haven't contacted the online paper, they have a dedicated contact for pictures: Picture Enquiries - +44 (0)207 748 3771 and pictures@racingpost.com" target="_blank or photos.racingpost.com They say they reply within 24 hours... You'd need the exact publication date or some way to identify the photo, obviously.

[Fizzbw]

Yep tried that. But thanks The phone no just rang out the few times I rang it, but I'm so bad on the phone anyway (triggers pain). The trouble is, I want the PDF not the print. I could just buy the print and scan it but that wouldn't be getting permission and it wouldn't be as good. And the print costs quite a bit of money that I don't have right now....

I might get so frustrated that I make an even more concerted effort though!!!

Nxxx

[Serinde]

[Allyn]

.....I have not made a chart from a Michael Whelan image I would dearly love to stitch ( http://www.michaelwhelan.com/shop/repro ... age-verge/ ) because I couldn't get a reply to my request.

I don't know if this affects your pursuit, but that image was already done in cross stitch. A designer by the name of Cathie Farr (I say 'designer', but she was really an early version of HaeD -- converting fantasy art to cross stitch) did several of Michael Whalen's designs back in the 90s. Her website is: http://www.cathiescupboard.com" target="_blank but I see that the site is down atm. I have contact information for her if you want it.

[richardandtracy]

Ah ha.
I did not know that.

I've done a brief search for her web site & it appears to be down for a re-vamp. I shall return to it & see, but later.

Regards,

Richard.

[JA Fan]

A couple of years ago I was browsing a site when I saw, what I instantly recognized as, charts from Kustom Krafts. Thats when I realized it was a pirate site.
I e-mailed Kustom Krafts to tell them of it.
They sent me a really nice reply and thanked me for bringing it to their attention.
All of their charts that were on the pirate site were taken down the same day.

It didn't stop the site from still operating of course, but at least it helped a bit. It made me more wary of sites like it and to avoid them. I now only stick with the well known legitimate ones.

This is an on going problem that will be almost impossible to fix. It would only cease if people stopped buying charts from those sites. And THAT is not likely to happen. Beginners may not realize they are buying a pirated chart and some people just don't care.
It spoils it for every one. Designers have their designs stolen, they end up closing much to their anger and dismay, and their legitimate customers suffer too.

[Ruthi]

I think its an ongoing problem, and its not new. There are fake artworks dating back hundreds of years - the price of success. The difference is that to fake an oil painting someone still has to put in a huge amount of work, whereas with modern technology you can copy and publish almost anything on paper, like a chart, in a few minutes. And if designers are kind enough to publish their work electronically then its the work of a moment to 'share'. Copy protection for software has been an issue since personal computers were born, and I think part of the problem is that many small designers aren't aware of ways to protect their work.

A well-known and successful designer got so frustrated she actually put a link to one of the Chinese pirate sites on her blog. I am sorry to say that I couldn't resist and went and had a look. What I can tell you is that the majority of the scanned charts seem pretty poor quality, and I wouldn't bother myself. I did, however, buy a back issue of a magazine as a result of what I saw there.

IF I were a designer I wouldn't publish electronically. I would sell kits, and make sure that there were no DMC or Anchor numbers visible on the documentation. That way it would at least make it as hard as possible for people trying to get a pirate copy. Or I would invest in some serious copy protection.

Most people don't know where to get the pirate stuff, and are fairly nervous of being caught anyway. And in any case, the cost of the chart is a small proportion of the total cost of the finished item, so why bother? If folk are just collecting charts that they won't work (because life is too short) they probably aren't doing too much harm. Overall, I doubt if the pirates would put someone out of busines very often, but they probably do eat into profits.

Like all parasites there is a balance, and the hosts (designers in this case) will probably live on, otherwise the parasites die too. No fun if you are a designer, but in the big scheme of things it will tend to be the successful ones that are hurt the most. I imagine the time will come when we can somehow stamp our files so that any pirated copies can be traced back to the original buyer, who will be made liable. But in the mean time its copy protection all the way.

[Allyn]

On Artecy's 'free pattern' page, they specifically mention that they're aware of their patterns showing up on a "particularly horrible chinese forum." I was hunting for a pattern one day and inadvertently stumbled upon one such forum offering patterns for free download. The quality was bad, but they didn't seem to care. I really hate to see that because 1) it really outrages me that some folks think it's okay to just steal someone else's work, and 2) I only want patterns in PDF now. I don't even want to buy a pattern in hardcopy anymore, and that kind of blatant disregard for copyrights makes designers reluctant to offer their designs in electronic forms.

http://www.artecy.com/free.html" target="_blank

[Amélie Abels]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. It's really eye-opening to see how weird the problem has gotten (particularly that nonsense of being not-really-interviewed Amanda G, very bizarre... ). I had a feeling Pinterest was going to pop up. I've seen and had a lot of charts shared with me and whilst I didn't see one I immediately recognized, looking through a couple I repinned I'm sure I've seen them on other sites before.

I liked what you said Ruthi about stamping charts. I used to know someone in music promotion, and that's apparently how they crack down on any DJs or journalists sharing stuff; using watermarks that are embedded invidually to the files, though granted it may be more of a deterance than a way of finding the culprits.

It's curious that the knock off charts are still being bought. Much like pirated DVDs I don't really see the point of actually paying (even if it's a fraction what you would for the genuine product) for something almost unusable, but sometimes the act itself can seem somewhat lucrative!

[MaggieM1750]

I think a lot of those people that buy copies.. and bad copies at that.. don't necessarily know they aren't buying the genuine article. On cover shots, the order page, etc.. they see the good image. Probably lifted from the designers site. Its not until purchase has been made and chart downloaded that they realize its crap. And good luck trying to get your money back from someone selling illegal charts. They may not know where the original design is from, or what the real price should be (so they don't know the legit chart is sold for $20, not $5. Huge price difference won't trigger an internal alarm because they don't know the real price ). Or they may think they are buying from a legit needlework distributor/ shop. They may think it was their own screw up in the download/ printing process, or that the designer puts out inferior product. But they don't know any of that until after the purchase.

Now yes.. there are also those that know they are getting illegal copies. And when they get a bad one, maybe they just consider that part of the gamble they take. But I also don't think many people knowingly buy fakes.. those that seek out illegal charts, just download from the free sites.

And I could also be totally wrong in my assumptions. I am a bit of a Pollyanna- and I do give people the benefit of the doubt. But I do not think those that buy illegal charts know they are illegal. I do think those that download them for free know they are getting illegal material.

With a pirated DVD.. I think its a bit more obvious. The cover art is slightly off. And, well, usually the movie is still showing on movie screens.

When I'm on Pinterest and I see a pattern pop up that I like.. below the image is the website. If it ends in .RU, I'll do an image search and find the designers page or a legit needlework shop selling it- then I'll pin that image/ link. Also, many of the illegal charts don't have any pattern or designer info listed- its just the website link.