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Hi all!

It's been a while since I was last here. Things have been busy with our new baby Shyli, who is now 8 month old. I can't wait to one day teach her how to cross stitch!

I wanted to ask, when buying a chart, does it include anything other than the chart itself? like a suggestion for thread colors? a key chart of some kind? I'm not confident enough to choose my own threads!!!

Thanks!!!

All info to complete the pattern will be included

Some are a bit more elaborate than others, but anything sold as "chart only" will definitley also have the colour key and number of strands to use. It may or may not have suggestions about the fabric, and stitch diagrams.
Something sold as a "chart pack" will have the chart and colour key and also instructions and stitch diagrams generally, and sometimes will have speciality threads or charms or things too (but only if that is clearly stated).
Does that sound about right, people?

Sounds right to me. I don't think I have ever seen a chart without a color key and all the information about special combinations if there are any. Always includes number of strands and sometimes offeres alternatives for different fabrics. Some patterns have different charts if using aida or evenweave or linen. Kits usually have everything (I think). I'm not sure what a "chart pack" is. Sounds like that is different than a kit, which has everything you need.

Carole

Chart: just as the others have said, it is the chart only but includes the thread list and fabric suggestions. The only time I have purchased a chart that did not have a color list was with 2 of the 3 Alessandra Adelaide charts I have bought. One was a 2 color pumpkin.. pick a green, pick an orange.. really, no need to have color suggestions. The other is the Cardinal Christmas Ball I am working on now. Its a solid color.. again, no need to have a color key.

Chart Pack: These can be a bit confusing because different companies include different things in their chart pack. I've never seen a chart pack that includes the chart.. its usually just the "extras." It should always list what is included in their chart pack.. if not, shoot them an email and ask (it may prompt them to be more descriptive with their listings).
1) I have purchased chart packs that include all the threads, beads, charms, buttons, etc to stitch a chart. You buy the chart, chart pack and fabric and you are ready to start stitching. When its the thread and everything, it seems to be when a store will put things together, not from the manufacturer or chart designer (but not always). I also see more of these "everything chart packs" for smaller designs- ornaments, biscornus- that use specialty threads and one or two buttons or charms. Its a way to play with fancy threads without buying whole skeins of each color.
2) I have also purchased chart packs that only include the specialty things for a design. Specialty threads only, not basic DMC/Anchor colors; silks, overdyed, varigated. Or all the beads, buttons or charms. These seem to be put out by the chart designer or manufacturer. Nora Corbett/ Wichelt puts out bead packs for her designs. Raise the Roof puts out button packs for their charts. Usually if it is only one type of item, its called a button pack, thread pack, bead pack, etc but some do use the generic "chart pack" which just adds to the confusion.

Kit: Has everything you need- chart, fabric, threads, beads, buttons and everything else. Usually includes the needle as well. All you need is a hoop/frame and your ready to start.

Chart packs are REALLY confusing, aren't they

Maggie, that's a really clear description of the various types. A little note about the ones with charts -- Colly of Coll's Creations does chart packs which are chart plus lots of instructions plus stitch diagrams plus thread/fabric information but no threads/fabric/etc. A designer in Australia whom I bought a Hardanger design from does the same, except she calls them "Design instruction packs". And I'm using the same format for mine. Perhaps we should get the Trades Description people to sort it out !

Honestly.. its confusing with them all using the same term for different things.. or different terms for the same thing. I just saw one called an Accessory Package.. which had some of the specialty floss (a few colors of overdyed floss) and a button. But didn't include the metalic or the standard DMC the pattern called for. I can understand not including basic floss (assuming stitchers would pull from stash) but then why not include the metalic (which was purple.. not a basic silver/ gold/ white) with the pack?? Its just odd.
And wow.. I have never seen a chart pack actually include the chart. I've only ever seen them with thread and/or embelishments. Oh and well, theres another term I have seen.. embelishment pack. What term do they use for Chatelaines with all the beads and metalics?

And while we're at it for standardizing.. my other "want" is for designers to standardize symbols. Of course, not everyones DMC 906 would be a $... but say, all black (regardless of brand) be the black square. red would always be the heart, white would be the little black dot. Mind you this would only work for simplish charts that don't have 13 shades of red.. but you know what I mean

I love the idea of standarizing symbols. I wish they would at least keep the symbols in the same pattern book the same. I think half of my s come from DMC502 being a $ in pattern A and then in pattern B DMC 369 is $. and if both colors are in the same patterns, I am bound to pick the wrong one just from memory. I know it wouldn't work for shades, but if they would at least decide on basic ones like MaggieM suggested, it would make like a little easier. and I am all for that!

rcperryls wrote:I love the idea of standarizing symbols. I wish they would at least keep the symbols in the same pattern book the same. I think half of my s come from DMC502 being a $ in pattern A and then in pattern B DMC 369 is $. and if both colors are in the same patterns, I am bound to pick the wrong one just from memory. I know it wouldn't work for shades, but if they would at least decide on basic ones like MaggieM suggested, it would make like a little easier. and I am all for that!

The general reason they don't do that is because it's hard with standardised symbols to ensure that similar symbols don't end up next to each other and cause confusion that way. My tapestry teacher went down the road of trying to standardise symbols.

hadn't thought of that. It could get really bad couldn't it with a small . next to a , next to a ' etc. It can be hard enough sometimes when they are very different next to each other. That's what magnifiers are for. Especially for 1/4 stitches!

Carole


Have you ever posted any of your tapestry on the forum? I suppose I could look on the "other crafts" discussions. Tapestry is one of the crafts/arts I have often thought would be interesting/challenging and fun to do, but didn't have a clue how to or what I would do with a tapestry.

Hi Girls! thanks so much!!!!! couldn't ask for more info.

so my next question would be: what is more worth money wise? buying the chart which is usually quite cheap and then going out to buy the diffeent threads and fabric (talking about medium to large project) or just buying a kit that gives you all you need?

About standardising symbols: I can see how it might not always be possible or even desirable (a black square and a small dot are very useful symbols, even if your chart uses no black or white), but I would like to see the following:

Dark colours have a dark/filled symbol, light colours have a light/open symbol.

Some charts are great in this, you can see by looking at the black and white chart what the image is because it's practically like a grey-scale image, but some charts are horrible -- I had one which used capital letters for all the shades, and the whole chart was just a uniform grey soup in which it was impossible to see the picture

@ Anati -- it depends what you think you will be doing in future. If you would like to build up stash, it may be better to get a chart and buy the materials separately, as you would then use what was left of the skeins and fabric in future projects; also if you like changing things about designs, e.g. use different colours or fabric, it would be better in the long run to get the chart and buy the threads etc. separately. But if you like the idea of using exactly the fabric and threads that the designer uses, and are unlikely to do charts from magazines or make up your own, then kits are probably a better buy.

Anati wrote:Hi Girls! thanks so much!!!!! couldn't ask for more info.

so my next question would be: what is more worth money wise? buying the chart which is usually quite cheap and then going out to buy the diffeent threads and fabric (talking about medium to large project) or just buying a kit that gives you all you need?

I would agree with what Mabel has said. This is something I have tried to figure out myself as well. And it really depends on what type of projects you like to work on. So its a difficult question to answer directly.

Your design options are endless when buying a chart vs. a kit. There is a chart for just about anything you would want to stitch. You can buy them online from all over the world.. at 3 in the morning. If it is a PDF file, you can have it in a matter of minutes of hitting that payment button. I am not seeing as many kits, or the variety in subject/ difficulty/ size as I have in the past. Charts seem to be everywhere.. online, in magazines, in books at your library or bookstore, in stitchy stores.
At the begining, when you do not have a thread stash to pull from.. I do think buying charts and kitting them up is the more expensive option... and has its own hidden costs. But.. its also the option that I think gives you the most room for customizing if you want to.. in that you can pick your own fabric.. in the color, count, and weave you are most comfortable with. You can switch out a basic floss for an overdyed, or match it to the shade of paint in your daughters room. After a while though, you could have most of the supplies on hand for a new project.
With buying skeins of floss and fabric seperately.. there becomes the need to do something with your stash. This is what I call the hidden costs. You'll have to collect and organize your stash someplace (mine is in a canvas grocery bag next to my chair.. soon to take over a drawer in my filing cabinet). You'll need to organize your floss somehow.. whether it be bobbins, floss bags, or stitch bows.

With kits, you don't really have leftovers you need to deal with. They include everything you need to get working on a project.. nothing is backordered, all your thread is included and not sold out, or needing to be ordered. (My store is good in that they have most floss I need on hand but there is always the oddball that needs to be ordered) Kits make it easy in that they have made the decisions for you in terms of fabric size, count and weave. Some people like that.. some people don't.

I have always found that a kit is about 15% more expensive then if I go out and buy my own product. That is if I use a standard aida fabric if I go for a specialty fabric the price of the kit is about 5% more. Plus I have the bonus of having thread left over. Maybe I just look at kits that are on the expensive side or somethig but I just like to buy my own supplies.