Colors - need they be exact & skein packs?

[neptuna]

Hi!

I'm here with another newbie question. I just finished my first ever piece (which I will post a picture of elsewhere once it's dry and I've ironed it), however it was all monochrome. Now, I am stepping up to my first ever multi-colored piece (yay!).

The pattern I have is from a magazine and it lists 15 or so colors by both anchor and DMC #. Right now, I have no collection of threads whatsoever, so I need to go and buy some. Is it normal to find the exact colors specified? I realize that there are so many, especially SO many shades of each individual color. Is it normal to not be able to find a particular shade, and so do you find a closeby one? I tried searching for a topic like this and I couldn't find one, so I apologize if this has been asked before! I realize that it's important to always try and match the colors (I mean, unless you decide to change it up) but I was just wondering how common it was for people to use inexact numbers.

Also, as a side note, I actually did buy this huge jumbo pack of embroidery threads, but I'm going to return them (luckily I did not open them yet and I still have the receipt). The brand I bought is called J&P Coats and once I got home, I realized this is not a very common brand. I realize there are conversion charts online but I just would feel more comfortable with DMC thread since it's more commonplace and that way when I really begin to build my thread collection, all of the colors will match exactly.

I do have a question concerning this though: is it wise to buy a beginner pack like this? Or should I just buy individual skeins as I need them?

Thanks in advance for the help!

[carolanne]

If your design doesn't have a lot of shades of the same color, say 1 red , I blue, 1 green, then exact by the number is not so important, but if there are several greens or several blues, then exact numbers become more important because that is how the shading develops. As to buying a pack of basic colors, if you are going to be stitching fairly simple designs, you can probably use the colors in a pack. But as mentioned above, it the designs have lots of shading you need to be precise in the shades (numbers). Just as a little bit of history, JP Coats has been around a really long time, but it doesn't seem to be available as it once was. So, it depends on which company's thread is most easily available. Also, I have spent years buying lots of DMC, I just love the colors and it is a reasonable splurge. But, it seems most of my stitching has been done from kits, so I don't really need all the floss stash I have. So, maybe for a beginner, just look for the colors in your design, if you are not using a kit. I am and can usually find the colors I need locally, however there are several online shopping spots and you can order just the numbers you need. Also, the designer's put a lot of thought into the color that produces the look they want, so you may want to keep that in mind. DMC's colors are in "color families", something I don't understand completely, but there are bright families, muted families, red toned families, blue toned families, etc.and that is how may designs are colored, so the colors compliment one another. You can see these shadings by holding different blues, reds, greens, etc. next to one another in good light. I hope this answers some of your questions.

[NeedleAndFork]

I'm sure everyone has their own take on this, but my answer is.. all of the above! Yes, I know.. real useful right?

You asked..

Is it normal to find the exact colors specified? I realize that there are so many, especially SO many shades of each individual color. Is it normal to not be able to find a particular shade, and so do you find a closeby one?

This depends on where you shop - walmart tends to have a limited selection of DMC, but joanns and micheals should have the entire line, though of course it is possible they're out of stock of a certain color. My suggestion on what to do would depend greatly on what the pattern is like.. if there is just one blue in the pattern, it probably wouldn't hurt to switch it out for a slightly different one if the original one is not in stock, or if you already have a very similar shade. But if there are multiple blues, it get trickier.. DMC colors come in families, so there are series from light to dark of a turquoisy blue.. greenish blues, purply blues.. etc. If you can't find one of the colors, I'd look to make sure that what you substitute it out with works well with the other blues.. or even possibly replace all the blues with a different set so they still work well together.. Here is one chart that can help you with that..

https://yarntree.com/075dmcolors.jpg" target="_blank" target="_blank

I used it a lot to make christmas ornaments last year.. it let me change colors around quite a bit as it was easy to find colors in the same family to get the shading to look right.

That said, I wouldn't change colors on patterns where there is a lot of confetti (lots of colors with just 1 or two stitches of each at a time) or on very large patterns with lots of colors that have a more painterly look to the finished piece as being just a shade or two off on patterns like that can throw things off much more than you'd expect.

[Mystonique]

I have used "nearby" colours on different projects where I determined it didn't matter but if there is a block of colour you should start with one number and end with a different one (be consistent if you are using a close colour and use that same close colour everywhere the colour is called for).

I wouldn't swap colours out on things where shading is really important such as where a picture fades out - because generally the colour has been picked very carefully to give the best effect.

But where the whatever is all one colour and it's not co-ordinated with something else - like a fence around a cottage for example, or a book on a shelf ... I don't think it matters if you are one shade darker or lighter.

If you just get the colours you need for a project you will soon find by your 3rd or so project that you are wracking up a good collection of thread already with the leftovers. And as a beginner it's hard to know what you will use - so I probably woudn't buy a beginner set.

[Allyn]

If you're going to the store to buy floss for the project, then yes, I would definitely try to get exactly the colors specified. If you can't and don't want to wait before starting the project, you can make decisions about which shade of the color to use. Without seeing the design, it's hard to make suggestions on how to handle the substitutions. The previous posters gave good advice for situations in general. You might not have to make subs, though, if the store has the colors you need. Get whichever brand -- Anchor or DMC -- is available locally.

I'm not an advocate of buying floss just for the sake of buying it to have on hand. Since I have stores locally that carry DMC, I can pop over and pick up whatever I need. Some people don't have that luxury. You'll have to decide whether or not you'll want to stockpile colors when you have the opportunity, even though you may never use them.

At this point, you'll want to start thinking about what floss storage system you'll want to use. Lots of folks use bobbins and/or floss-away bags. While you're at the store grab some bobbins and a winder, or a pack of bags.

[HalbertMusik]

Hello-

If you are doing kits, you may be suprised at how fast the leftover floss builds up. But it is best when beginning to not do too much substituting of colour - it may take a little expierience to see how the colours are used to their best - shading, contrast, etc.

Coats is acually a very well used & recoignized floss - it really depends on where you are. Here in southern Germany I cannot find DMC floss anywhere, except in kits and online stores. Nearly everything is Coats Anchor - The magazines I get also have both DMC and Coats charts so it is often a matter of abailiability.

The important thing is that you enjoy what you are stitching.

William David

[Serinde]

Have a look and see what thread the model pictured in your design kit pack was stitched with. That's the result you'll get with that thread. Another company's thread will be similar, but not exactly the same.

Before you get rid of the Coats threads, check that the numbers don't marry up to the Anchor threads (these used to be the same company).

I'd also counsel against doing a lot of thread substitution at this stage -- first because it requires a bit of experience, and there's no use in getting frustrated right off; second, because it can lead you into the dark forest of copyright law, where large monsters lurk.

My advice would be to decide which set of threads (DMC or Anchor) are most easily available to you. There are pros and cons for each company, and it's worth doing a bit of investigating, since most things are also widely available on the Net. I have a large collection of DMC, since I started my stitching life in the US; but I also have lots of Anchor threads, too, having lived in the UK for years. (Let's not mention all the other threads I have in stash... )

All you really need to know is this: never, ever, start with one company's thread colour in a design (DMC 321 -- red -- for instance), find you've run out, and then exchange it halfway through for another company's thread colour (Anchor 47). They are never exact matches. Unhappiness ensues.

[Allyn]

..... second, because it can lead you into the dark forest of copyright law, where large monsters lurk.

I have never, ever heard of such a thing and I can't imagine how it is possible that substituting floss colors violates a designer's copyright.

Never. . . ever.

[Serinde]

@Allyn I've sent you a pm to expand on this issue.

I don't suppose anyone cares if you make small changes, like the colour of Santa's coat, or the stripes on a Sherry cat's cup to suit your kitchen decor. They do get very exercised over whole-sale changes in colourway. Best to be cautious.

[Allyn]

@Allyn I've sent you a pm to expand on this issue.

I don't suppose anyone cares if you make small changes, like the colour of Santa's coat, or the stripes on a Sherry cat's cup to suit your kitchen decor. They do get very exercised over whole-sale changes in colourway. Best to be cautious.

Not buying it, sorry. It's your project, you can change the colors. Besides, the OP was asking about small-scale substitutes, so the point is moot.

[Mystonique]

Lawyer weighing in on the copyright issue. The issue in copyright is making a gain from another persons hard work without properly compensating them.

So you can change colours to your heart's content and you can adapt the design to your heart's content but the original copyright still applies - so you can not take credit for it in any way not specifically allowed by the original copyright owner despite the changes you have made, it is still subject to the original copyright (unless a Court deems it sufficiently different - but that is murky water).

[carolanne]

re copyright: I can't imagine if I change some colors in a design and then hung the stitchery in my kitchen or gave it as a gift, how would any designer ever be aware that I had changed colors, now if I had wanted to sell the design and claim credit for that design, that is a whole other situation. And yes, if a designer became aware of it, yes, they have a perfect right to object and perhaps sue. Am I missing something here?

[Allyn]

re copyright: I can't imagine if I change some colors in a design and then hung the stitchery in my kitchen or gave it as a gift, how would any designer ever be aware that I had changed colors, now if I had wanted to sell the design and claim credit for that design, that is a whole other situation. And yes, if a designer became aware of it, yes, they have a perfect right to object and perhaps sue. Am I missing something here?

No, you're not missing anything.. . .and you don't need to hide the piece you changed the colors on. The copyright is on the design. . the printed design. Once you buy the design, any alterations you make in the production of the finished piece is outside the scope of the designer's copyright. Now, you can't change the colors and call it your own design. It's not your design, but the finished project is yours to keep, give as a gift or sell.

Edit: This is an interesting read for anyone with copyright questions. I like the information found here because they cite precedence and don't just make unsubstantiated claims.
http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/Cop ... erns.shtml" target="_blank

[Rose]

That is all very interesting but it does not address the differences in Cross Stitch. Cross stitching is a different area of the copyright because like a picture it falls under a different set of rules. Many characters are copyrighted.... ie Disney, Care Bear and so on. You seem not to want to make the distinction between a form and a true character. I can not quote case in law but I do know that Disney has gone after individuals for copyright infringement and that is fact.

On this forum we have always error on the side of caution, we do not want designers to think that we do not care about copyright and trust me they do come and look. I have had a few designers send messages about how the forum dealt with questions and concerns about this very touch issue. Most are very thankful that we take the care we do.

[Allyn]

That is all very interesting but it does not address the differences in Cross Stitch. Cross stitching is a different area of the copyright because like a picture it falls under a different set of rules. Many characters are copyrighted.... ie Disney, Care Bear and so on. You seem not to want to make the distinction between a form and a true character. I can not quote case in law but I do know that Disney has gone after individuals for copyright infringement and that is fact.

On this forum we have always error on the side of caution, we do not want designers to think that we do not care about copyright and trust me they do come and look. I have had a few designers send messages about how the forum dealt with questions and concerns about this very touch issue. Most are very thankful that we take the care we do.

I disagree. It isn't different. Cross stitch falls under craft and needlework patterns, which that article mentions in several places. Cross stitch charts don't fall under the same copyright as images -- like the Disney characters -- which also get into trademark issues so that's a different conversation altogether.

There are a lot of myths and misconceptions about what folks can and can't do with their stitching. I am all in favor of upholding and respecting a designer's copyright, I just don't think it's doing anyone any favors by perpetuating misinformation. I also don't like to be bullied by someone overstepping their bounds trying to claim rights they don't have.